John Waters on love, marriage, and other nasty things

Ever since Divine took a big bite of dog shit in Pink Flamingos in 1972—and yes, it was real dog shit—subversive filmmaking has been playing catch up. Director John Waters, patron saint of "good bad taste," as he calls it, has been the de facto smirking leader of the genre ever since, making movies that are as instantly recognizable as his pencil-thin moustache. But just because Waters is an authority on such outré behaviors as teabagging and tromboning, does that mean you'd let him score the soundtrack to your Saturday night make-out session?

With his latest creation, Waters aims to do just that. A Date With John Waters, out February 6 on New Line Records, is a compilation of what the Prince of Puke considers to be timeless love songs—ballads like "Johnny Are You Queer" by Josie Cotton and "I'd Love to Take Orders From You" by Mildred Bailey. Radar caught up with Mr. Waters to see what romantic advice he might have for us.

"I'm not sure if it's riskier since 9/11 to send animal parts to people as a token of your love"RADAR: Valentine's Day is just weeks away and the pressure to suddenly become a romantic person is ridiculous. Any pointers?
JOHN WATERS: Now Valentine's Day, the only thing I ever used to do was send a gift-wrapped chicken heart from a butcher to people I was in love with.

Does it work?
Most of the kind of people who I would have crushes on take it the right way. And it's not that big—a chicken heart is little. I go and get a little ring box and they open it and it's just repellent. And by the time you get it, you have to just throw it out because it stinks by then. I mean, I mail it overnight delivery—I don't mail it fourth-class book rate. But FedExing might be trouble, because they'll have dogs sniff it. I haven't done it since 9/11. I'm not sure if it's riskier since 9/11 to send animal parts to people as a token of your love.

What's your idea of a perfect date?
Robbing a 7-Eleven, getting away with it, and having great sex afterward while listening to music.

Are John Waters movies good date movies?
I think they are. I've met couples whose first date was one of my movies and they've gotten married. They have matching Divine tattoos. But I guess it could also be kind of like in Taxi Driver where Robert De Niro takes Cybill Shepherd to a porn movie—some people would hate you for it, but you might as well get that date over with quickly anyway.

I always find a movie date awkward, because afterward you have to think of something to say about the film.
Well all dating is ludicrous. You have to go out in packs like kids do today. I think a movie is good to do the next day if you got lucky.

Right, because often, the date movie is just a means to an end, really.
Sure, but still, you can't just put on anything. You wouldn't put on Irreversible as a first-date movie. I have the soundtrack to that, actually. "Honey, let's build a fire and listen to the Irreversible soundtrack."

You've said before that one basically has to commit crimes in the making of a film to be subversive anymore.
Well, I think the only really subversive movie I've ever made was Hairspray, because it tricked families into going into John Waters World.

"The perfect date? Robbing a 7-Eleven, getting away with it, and having great sex afterward while listening to music"And now they're lined up on Broadway with their 12-year-old children waiting to see it.
Sobbing! I've seen whole families sobbing.

Before or afterward?
All through it! Sobbing with happiness. They used to be sobbing in horror. They're still crying, just for different reasons. Oh, times have changed.

But your movies remain disturbing. I'm always surprised when I'm shocked by your movies because it's hard to be shocked by anything anymore.
Well, I don't think Pink Flamingos got any easier to watch. The only thing in it that time has affected is that today all lesbians buy children. Back then, lesbians buying children was shocking, and today they have more children than Catholics. Keep 'em impregnated down in the cellar.

So have you ever committed a crime during the making of a film?

Yes. In Pink Flamingos there's a scene where there's graffiti that says "Free Tex Watson." My friend went down and spray-painted that on the wall the night before, on someone's house. Some of the clothes in my movies were definitely stolen. Even in Hairspray, we couldn't afford Ruth Brown's outfit so we took it back the next day. It had makeup all over it.

What about when you had Traci Lords on the set of Cry-Baby. Wasn't she wanted at the time?
She wasn't "wanted," but the FBI raided the set and tried to serve her with papers to get her to come testify against the mob at the trial about the distribution of her movies. We were deep in the woods, in this obscure area, and the Feds were there! I was like, "Oh my god, leave her alone! This is rehab here." Patty Hearst was comforting her. It was nice.

"Gay people know what bears are, no straight people do, even though most middle-class straight men are bears. They just don't know that that's attractive to some people"Did you really help her rehabilitate?
Read her book! She even says that. If you have a reputation and you want to change it, you come play that reputation and make fun of it in my movies, and they can't use it against you anymore. Traci Lords did it, Patricia Hearst did it, Johnny Depp did it.

You used to teach murderers and rapists in a prison in Baltimore. Did that experience influence your filmmaking?
Oh, sure. Cry-Baby's best line came from there. Someone asked him why he'd murdered someone, and he said he was tired of being good. Everything I do ends up weirdly in my movies in some way.

Did you show Pink Flamingos to your prisoners?
Yeah, they said I was fucked up. That was my best review. Some of them are out of prison now—some success stories, some not. I saw one of them and he said, "You were my teacher, Mr. Waters. You did well, I'm a successful coke dealer now." That was a success story.

I suppose making independent films is somewhat like dealing drugs anyway. Both are sort of frowned upon.
Well, in the old days raising money for movies often did involve pot dealers. Certainly it was a nice way for your friends to help you out.

I read on IMDb that you visit the trials of people charged with heinous crimes.

See, that IMDb always has the wrong stuff on it. I did that twenty years ago. Now I get recognized, and frankly I'm afraid they'll take it out on the defendant if they hate me. And today, CourtTV has made it so common. I would have liked to have gone to Michael Jackson's trial, though, and to Johnny Walker Lindh's trial. Those are the only two recent ones where I've felt the urge.

Did working in a prison help prepare you for working with actors, or is that just a cheap shot?
I think it's the same thing. When you're around someone who is scarily evil or very famous, the same is true: you show no fear and you'll do fine. Don't blink. If you're the director, they want you to tell them what to do. If you're the teacher, they want you to tell them what to do. And if you don't, they can kill you.

Speaking of cheap shots, Baltimorians—is it Baltimorians?
Baltimorons, you can call 'em.

You were voted the ugliest people in America by Travel + Leisure magazine.
"Least Attractive," they said. I say ugliest. I was very proud of that. I told the mayor we should put it on the benches, but he didn't go for it.

Do you think people in Baltimore are ugly?
There are ugly people here, yes. Take a look around on the first spring day when everyone's nude on the streets, and it is astounding.

To take some terminology from A Dirty Shame, would you say Baltimore as a persona is more of a neuter or more of a sex addict?
Sex addict. We aren't anymore, but for a while we were the VD capital of America.

Back to Valentine's Day. How did you discover sex?
From being inquisitive, from being out in the world. Hitchhiking helped. I still hitchhike. I hitchhike to the beach in Provincetown every summer. I stand by the road and get a ride in one minute. I pick up hitchhikers too.

"I've met couples whose first date was one of my movies and they've gotten married. They have matching Divine tattoos"Everybody says that's dangerous.
It is! I mean, if they're on the side of the freeway with no luggage, and they're running, and there's a police siren in the background, then I tend to just yield.

Do you get recognized?
Hitchhiking? Yeah, all the time. It's like hailing a limousine. They pick me up right away, take me where I'm going. To my house! It's like calling a car service.

You've brought a fair amount of fringe sex acts to the mainstream through your movies: teabagging, tromboning, even bear culture, which I think a lot of straight people had never even heard of.
Yes, all gay people know what bears are, no straight people do, even though most middle-class straight men are bears. They just don't know that that's attractive to some people.

What do you think about gay people becoming so much more like straight people and getting married and adopting kids?
I'm for it and we have to fight for it, but don't use it in the elections. Republicans love that because it makes people so crazy. I don't know how they can talk about the sanctity of heterosexual marriage when Britney Spears can be married for 24 hours. I'm for making heterosexual divorce illegal. Then things would change very quickly. But no, I'm from a generation where being gay meant you didn't have to get married or have children. I'm for people having the right to do that. I just personally don't want to do those things. I'm a good uncle, I can get you an abortion.