(Continued...)

Speaking of scary, it looks like Hillary Clinton is going to make a push for the presidency. What do you make of a woman being in the nation's highest office?

I have no problem with a woman being in the nation's highest office. I have a problem with that woman being in its highest office.

What's your problem with her?
I find her scary, and I don't believe in her points of views. I'm not a political talker, I'm just saying she won't be getting my vote. It's not personal. I just don't like her politics.

How do you think Bill and Hillary's marriage will be impacted if she starts wearing the presidential pants?
I've never really seen that as a marriage, have you? I see that as a business agreement.

One that pays dividends to both of them.
There are perks to it. I guess it's okay for them. I'd rather have something more loving and tender and memorable. I'm kind of a romantic.

Really? Do you feel that you're misunderstood?
Oh, no, I think I'm clearly understood. If I were misunderstood, there would be no reaction.

You do seem to inspire reactions. Who comprises your primary audience?
They've done a lot of testing, and all the data shows I cover both genders, all ages, all races, and all political affiliations. So this is unique about my show, which is interesting. Most talk-radio folks have a niche audience—Stern with young males, Rush with older males. I don't have a niche. Liberals care about their families, they care about their children, they care about marriages—they care about all of these things. It's not all about politics. Liberals and conservatives share in common that they want to have a good quality life with children protected and doing well.

So there's no core Dr. Laura listener?
No! And that frankly surprises me. I thought there would be, since everyone has that. But I don't.

Really? You appeal to everyone?
Yeah. People who care about morals, ethics, values, and principles. Although the political denominations might deny that it's true, from what I can see, the audience covers everybody except sociopaths.

My two best friends in the world are—shock! —gay men. I have a ton of gay friends. I even have a brand-new transsexual friendWhat about homosexuals?
Oh! Well, I turn around here and I have a huge folder that I have labeled "Homosexual Fans." You see there are a lot of people who didn't buy the lies.

What lies?
Well, that I had a problem with homosexuals. That I had hated homosexuals, or—

Well, I've seen you refer to them as "biological deviants."
I never said that. See what I mean? See what I mean?

That's what I read. (Editor's note: Not exactly. The term she used, according to GLAAD, was "biological errors.")
For 50 years, the homosexual activists have said it's a biological issue, not a moral issue. Since it's a biological issue, it's built in. For example, if a lion comes into the room and kills you, that's not a moral issue, since the lion has no right or wrong, because it's built into the DNA. Homosexual activists have said it's built in, therefore it's not a choice; and if it's not a choice, it's not a moral issue.

The classic nature versus nurture argument.

Right. That you don't create a homosexual by having a close mommy. All I said was exactly the same as the activists have said for 50 years—that it's a biological error when a person is attracted to a person of the same sex, biologically, as opposed to someone of the opposite sex, because that's not the reproductive pressure. That's all I said. That's it! I didn't put anyone down. My two best friends in the world are—shock!—gay men. I have a ton of gay friends. I even have a brand-new transsexual friend. I have no problem with them, and they have no problem with me. But my name was used to raise a lot of money for GLAAD. I have a problem with using my celebrity, my fame, my name, in order to make their bones. That was just evil. Really horrible. Because I never put anyone down. That was a total abject lie. And the irony of this was that, while GLAAD was selling t-shirts saying, "I am not an error," the exact quotes were actually on GLAAD. No one ever read them. And it all gets repeated, repeated, repeated, and no matter how many times I say anything live on air, or write in a column, it doesn't matter.

They've made up their minds about you.
Hate generally eclipses good, because it has no boundaries. You listen to my show, and you can hear very clearly that decent people don't even want to have a righteous confrontation. Someone in their family molested someone, and they say, "Well, we should still go there for dinner. We don't want to rock the boat." So decent people have all these rules of decorum, and the indecent ones have no such rules, and it's very hard to go up against them. It's like playing a team that cheats when you don't want to cheat. I have been beaten up for six years on that, and it's all a lie. And yes, it hurts. Because they made people hate me. And I still come up to people who ask me the same question you did, and it just breaks my heart. Gary Morris, my dear friend who is gay, wrote to the LA Times, New York Times, Time, Newsweek, US News, saying, "I am a gay male. Dr. Laura is my best friend." And not one published it. Why do you think that is?

I don't know.
Yeah. Well that's been my life.

Well, as long as we're getting personal, I have a question: my partner's mother has tried to put him into therapy because she's not comfortable with the fact that he's gay. They haven't talked in quite some time as a result of that. [Editor's note: Neel Shah is not, in fact, gay. He is, however, gay friendly.]
That's very sad.

Is there anything that can be done in our situation?
Well, when parents call me, or when young gay guys call me and say, My parents don't like this and want me to go into reparative therapy, here's what I say: If parents are willing to have you over for dinner and Christmas with family, but they don't like that you're gay, you just have to accept that. They are allowed to have that opinion. What they're not allowed to do, as decent mommies and daddies, is reject you.

If you are a gay man, and your whole thing is every five minutes you're out to a different club doing anonymous sex in the bathroom, I wouldn't have you over to my houseIt's a hard scenario to deal with.
Very. On the parents' side, I always say, You know what? It's your kid, straight or gay. Let's just say you're a straight guy, and you are married, and you have a daughter who is 18, and she's doing stripping and call-girl stuff and all of that—and she's straight. That's not the point—I still wouldn't have her over for Christmas, because that's a very bad influence. So if you are a gay man, and your whole thing is every five minutes you're out to a different club doing anonymous sex in the bathroom, I wouldn't have you over to my house either. So straight or gay, I think there is decent behavior.

Do you think gay men like Ted Haggard are more prone to deviant behavior?
Like who?

Ted Haggard, the minister from Colorado who was seeing a male prostitute.
Do I think gay men are more prone to what?

To deviant behavior.
You know, I personally have not done research in this area. All I know is that male loners—straight or gay—tend to do more bad things.

What do you mean by loners?
Well, you know how they always say the guy who went and shot up a bunch of people at work, or who was a serial killer—these are unattached guys, loners. Unattached men are dangerous creatures [laughs]. I can tell you that. You don't normally see a guy, married, three kids, blah blah blah, in monogamous relationship for 20 years, out doing bad stuff.

What about George Clooney? He's a loner.
What about him?

He's a loner, no?
Come on.

Ted Haggard was married with a bunch of kids, and he turned out—
Well, there are the guys who hide. I'm talking about straight men married to women. Straight men with a bunch of kids don't normally go out and do bad things. These are family guys. If he's a man hiding who he is, he's just a confused guy. But you know, straight or gay, there are bad people out there. I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer was gay. He was a pretty bad person. So nobody corners the market on bad or good. There are sociopathic people, period. They come in all combinations.

Do you think reparative therapy is effective?
Evidently it is with some people. This is not an area I am very researched in. There's a psychiatrist from Columbia, I can't remember his name, but he says with some people who are highly motivated, evidently it works for them.

Motivated to not be gay?
Right. I forget his name, though. Damn. You can look it up. [Editor's note: We did, it's Professor Robert Spitzer, M.D.]

Okay. My partner and I are also trying to adopt a child. What do you think about that?
The same way I feel about women alone and men alone. I don't think people should rob a child of a mommy and a daddy. I mean, you have a mommy and a daddy, and you know it matters, and it's not unisex mattering: mommy mattered as a mommy, and daddy mattered as a daddy. And whether you are straight or gay, it doesn't matter to me. I think you need the polarity of both for the psychological development of the human being.

Well, one of us plays mommy and one of us plays daddy....
No! You're both men! Which is why you are with each other, you know.

Yeah, but one of us definitely plays the mommy role.
No. It's not a role. It's a being. A woman is a being. A man is a being. You are two man-beings. And there is no mommy. And I don't think that's in the best interest of the children. It has nothing to do with anything else in my mind and heart than that. I always go for what's in the best interest of the children. Which is why when young, straight females call me, knocked up by some guy who isn't going to be around, I ask for an adoption—to a two-parent, married family. Being a parent isn't about what you want, it's about what's best for the kid. And I'm consistent on that.