How radio shock doc Laura Schlessinger learned to stop worrying and love the gays

When Dr. Laura Schlessinger talks, 8.5 million people listen. That kind of responsibility can change a person: The same woman who once had an affair with a married man—and whose nude snapshots are all over the Internet—now lectures housewives on family values from her nationally-syndicated radio pulpit five days a week. The New York Times best-selling author and onetime Orthodox Jew has offended gays, single parents, and feminists alike with her high-handed sermonizing, but don't expect to hear any apologies. She's just trying to help. And, more often than not, she actually does. On the eve of her latest book release, The Proper Care and Feeding of Marriage, Radar got the good Doc talking about her fear of Hillary Clinton, Britney's genitalia, and why she (honestly) has nothing but love for homosexuals.

RADAR: You have a number of critics—
DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER: Mostly critics!

Yeah. At least on the coasts. Why do you think you inspire such vitriol?
It's vicious! Methinks the lady protesteth too much. It's a Shakespearean moment if I've ever seen one. The amount of vitriol and hate and attacks indicate a tremendous amount of defensiveness. So why are people defensive? Because they are not leading their lives right, and they don't want to confront it, so they attack the messenger. It's different than from, say, conservative political pundits—that's not personal. People are getting pretty mean in that department, too, but that's not personal.

When a woman has 16 kids with 15 different men, and I'm saying it's not a good thing for the kids, that gets her mad. So instead of looking at the fact that maybe she should have had one father for those 16 kids, I get attacked for being judgmental, or mean, or stupid, or backwards, or all the dumb horrible things they say about me. But it doesn't bother me anymore, because I understand where they are coming from. It's not about me.

I don't allow personal attacks to keep me from my job. I take it very seriously. If I just wanted to be in the media, I guess I'd wear short, tight skirts. That's the easiest way to do itSo who is Dr. Laura?
I don't know what that means.

You said it's not about you. So who are you?
Well it's not about me—they don't know me. They just hear what I'm saying and feel stupid, bad, and judged.

Philosophically, I mean.
Well, my 21-year-old, 6-foot-3-inch son in the military says that I'm his role model for a warrior. I'm the person who has a commitment to the well-being of families and children. I don't allow people's emotions and political correctness to get in the way of that fact, and I don't allow personal attacks on me to keep me from my job. I take it very seriously. If I just wanted to be in the media, I guess I'd wear short, tight skirts. That's the easiest way to do it.

Like Ann Coulter?
Oh, does she wear short skirts?

I believe so. Are you not familiar with her body of work?
I am, but I've never seen her in a short skirt.

She loves them.
Well she's awfully thin.

She's famous for playing up her physical attributes to garner attention.
Oh. Well, gee, I like to use my brains. Brains just don't fill a sweater, I guess.

Which brings us to Britney Spears. There have been a number of high-profile divorces in America recently, particularly among young people—Britney and Kevin, Reese and Ryan, Kid Rock and Pam, the Hilton sister and what'shisname—what's going on?
I don't know why those people are getting married. I think their lives are in such chaos that they think if they get married something's going to settle down. But they don't get married out of love, and that's the primary thing. When women get sexual, it gets personal, even when it's not. And then they are devastated.

So the solution is to stay asexual until marriage?
Well not asexual—you hug and neck and talk and do things together. The orthodox of most religions—like the Orthodox Jews—they don't touch till they're married. Now, they don't wait two years to marry, but they spend all their time talking and getting to know each other and becoming friends.

Do you think Britney's marriage was doomed from the beginning?
These are not marriages; these are immature behaviors. Now she's walking around, flashing her, uh, private female genitalia for photographs. This girl has serious problems. We don't talk about marriage when we're talking about her.

What did you make of that flashing business?
There is something seriously wrong with that girl. It scares me that she's got two children.

So what's the diagnosis—and do you have a prescription for it?
Well, I don't know if she's on prescriptions, I really have no idea what she's doing. I have no idea. But she's totally out of control, and as the mother of two children, she's supposed to nurture and protect. It's kind of scary behavior.

Speaking of scary, it looks like Hillary Clinton is going to make a push for the presidency. What do you make of a woman being in the nation's highest office?

I have no problem with a woman being in the nation's highest office. I have a problem with that woman being in its highest office.

What's your problem with her?
I find her scary, and I don't believe in her points of views. I'm not a political talker, I'm just saying she won't be getting my vote. It's not personal. I just don't like her politics.

How do you think Bill and Hillary's marriage will be impacted if she starts wearing the presidential pants?
I've never really seen that as a marriage, have you? I see that as a business agreement.

One that pays dividends to both of them.
There are perks to it. I guess it's okay for them. I'd rather have something more loving and tender and memorable. I'm kind of a romantic.

Really? Do you feel that you're misunderstood?
Oh, no, I think I'm clearly understood. If I were misunderstood, there would be no reaction.

You do seem to inspire reactions. Who comprises your primary audience?
They've done a lot of testing, and all the data shows I cover both genders, all ages, all races, and all political affiliations. So this is unique about my show, which is interesting. Most talk-radio folks have a niche audience—Stern with young males, Rush with older males. I don't have a niche. Liberals care about their families, they care about their children, they care about marriages—they care about all of these things. It's not all about politics. Liberals and conservatives share in common that they want to have a good quality life with children protected and doing well.

So there's no core Dr. Laura listener?
No! And that frankly surprises me. I thought there would be, since everyone has that. But I don't.

Really? You appeal to everyone?
Yeah. People who care about morals, ethics, values, and principles. Although the political denominations might deny that it's true, from what I can see, the audience covers everybody except sociopaths.

My two best friends in the world are—shock! —gay men. I have a ton of gay friends. I even have a brand-new transsexual friendWhat about homosexuals?
Oh! Well, I turn around here and I have a huge folder that I have labeled "Homosexual Fans." You see there are a lot of people who didn't buy the lies.

What lies?
Well, that I had a problem with homosexuals. That I had hated homosexuals, or—

Well, I've seen you refer to them as "biological deviants."
I never said that. See what I mean? See what I mean?

That's what I read. (Editor's note: Not exactly. The term she used, according to GLAAD, was "biological errors.")
For 50 years, the homosexual activists have said it's a biological issue, not a moral issue. Since it's a biological issue, it's built in. For example, if a lion comes into the room and kills you, that's not a moral issue, since the lion has no right or wrong, because it's built into the DNA. Homosexual activists have said it's built in, therefore it's not a choice; and if it's not a choice, it's not a moral issue.

The classic nature versus nurture argument.

Right. That you don't create a homosexual by having a close mommy. All I said was exactly the same as the activists have said for 50 years—that it's a biological error when a person is attracted to a person of the same sex, biologically, as opposed to someone of the opposite sex, because that's not the reproductive pressure. That's all I said. That's it! I didn't put anyone down. My two best friends in the world are—shock!—gay men. I have a ton of gay friends. I even have a brand-new transsexual friend. I have no problem with them, and they have no problem with me. But my name was used to raise a lot of money for GLAAD. I have a problem with using my celebrity, my fame, my name, in order to make their bones. That was just evil. Really horrible. Because I never put anyone down. That was a total abject lie. And the irony of this was that, while GLAAD was selling t-shirts saying, "I am not an error," the exact quotes were actually on GLAAD. No one ever read them. And it all gets repeated, repeated, repeated, and no matter how many times I say anything live on air, or write in a column, it doesn't matter.

They've made up their minds about you.
Hate generally eclipses good, because it has no boundaries. You listen to my show, and you can hear very clearly that decent people don't even want to have a righteous confrontation. Someone in their family molested someone, and they say, "Well, we should still go there for dinner. We don't want to rock the boat." So decent people have all these rules of decorum, and the indecent ones have no such rules, and it's very hard to go up against them. It's like playing a team that cheats when you don't want to cheat. I have been beaten up for six years on that, and it's all a lie. And yes, it hurts. Because they made people hate me. And I still come up to people who ask me the same question you did, and it just breaks my heart. Gary Morris, my dear friend who is gay, wrote to the LA Times, New York Times, Time, Newsweek, US News, saying, "I am a gay male. Dr. Laura is my best friend." And not one published it. Why do you think that is?

I don't know.
Yeah. Well that's been my life.

Well, as long as we're getting personal, I have a question: my partner's mother has tried to put him into therapy because she's not comfortable with the fact that he's gay. They haven't talked in quite some time as a result of that. [Editor's note: Neel Shah is not, in fact, gay. He is, however, gay friendly.]
That's very sad.

Is there anything that can be done in our situation?
Well, when parents call me, or when young gay guys call me and say, My parents don't like this and want me to go into reparative therapy, here's what I say: If parents are willing to have you over for dinner and Christmas with family, but they don't like that you're gay, you just have to accept that. They are allowed to have that opinion. What they're not allowed to do, as decent mommies and daddies, is reject you.

If you are a gay man, and your whole thing is every five minutes you're out to a different club doing anonymous sex in the bathroom, I wouldn't have you over to my houseIt's a hard scenario to deal with.
Very. On the parents' side, I always say, You know what? It's your kid, straight or gay. Let's just say you're a straight guy, and you are married, and you have a daughter who is 18, and she's doing stripping and call-girl stuff and all of that—and she's straight. That's not the point—I still wouldn't have her over for Christmas, because that's a very bad influence. So if you are a gay man, and your whole thing is every five minutes you're out to a different club doing anonymous sex in the bathroom, I wouldn't have you over to my house either. So straight or gay, I think there is decent behavior.

Do you think gay men like Ted Haggard are more prone to deviant behavior?
Like who?

Ted Haggard, the minister from Colorado who was seeing a male prostitute.
Do I think gay men are more prone to what?

To deviant behavior.
You know, I personally have not done research in this area. All I know is that male loners—straight or gay—tend to do more bad things.

What do you mean by loners?
Well, you know how they always say the guy who went and shot up a bunch of people at work, or who was a serial killer—these are unattached guys, loners. Unattached men are dangerous creatures [laughs]. I can tell you that. You don't normally see a guy, married, three kids, blah blah blah, in monogamous relationship for 20 years, out doing bad stuff.

What about George Clooney? He's a loner.
What about him?

He's a loner, no?
Come on.

Ted Haggard was married with a bunch of kids, and he turned out—
Well, there are the guys who hide. I'm talking about straight men married to women. Straight men with a bunch of kids don't normally go out and do bad things. These are family guys. If he's a man hiding who he is, he's just a confused guy. But you know, straight or gay, there are bad people out there. I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer was gay. He was a pretty bad person. So nobody corners the market on bad or good. There are sociopathic people, period. They come in all combinations.

Do you think reparative therapy is effective?
Evidently it is with some people. This is not an area I am very researched in. There's a psychiatrist from Columbia, I can't remember his name, but he says with some people who are highly motivated, evidently it works for them.

Motivated to not be gay?
Right. I forget his name, though. Damn. You can look it up. [Editor's note: We did, it's Professor Robert Spitzer, M.D.]

Okay. My partner and I are also trying to adopt a child. What do you think about that?
The same way I feel about women alone and men alone. I don't think people should rob a child of a mommy and a daddy. I mean, you have a mommy and a daddy, and you know it matters, and it's not unisex mattering: mommy mattered as a mommy, and daddy mattered as a daddy. And whether you are straight or gay, it doesn't matter to me. I think you need the polarity of both for the psychological development of the human being.

Well, one of us plays mommy and one of us plays daddy....
No! You're both men! Which is why you are with each other, you know.

Yeah, but one of us definitely plays the mommy role.
No. It's not a role. It's a being. A woman is a being. A man is a being. You are two man-beings. And there is no mommy. And I don't think that's in the best interest of the children. It has nothing to do with anything else in my mind and heart than that. I always go for what's in the best interest of the children. Which is why when young, straight females call me, knocked up by some guy who isn't going to be around, I ask for an adoption—to a two-parent, married family. Being a parent isn't about what you want, it's about what's best for the kid. And I'm consistent on that.

We're actually going the surrogate mother route. I guess if things don't work out with the mother we could just pay her to have an abortion.

I don't believe in abortions, I believe in adoptions. I don't believe in killing babies because they are inconvenient, I believe in giving them life and love and family.

Fair enough. Okay, if you could say one thing to the teenagers and youth of America, what would it be?
What I would say is this: When that impulse to do something crazy—be it sex or drugs or marriage or driving fast—

Or taking nude photos?
As teenagers?

Or as young adults.
What does that have to do with anything?

Well, you asked about doing something crazy, so I was just giving you an example.
Let me ask you something, you and your partner ... what is your partner's name?

Um, Mike.
Between you and Mike, there have been intimacies of words and deeds. Is that not true?

It is.
What if one of you, years later, out of envy or jealousy or just plain meanness, decided to go public, all over the world, with those intimacies. Who is the one who was bad?

The person who went public.
Thank you. Now, to go back to your original question, I would tell them to close their eyes, look ahead 20 years in the future, and do what would make them proud. You know I'm 59 now, but I've been every age between zero and 59. So I know the attitudes and the impulses, I know all that. From my experience, and my place in life right now, that's the thing that's been most helpful to young people on the air. Would you be proud to look back at this moment? We tend to be impulsive when we are younger, that's just part of brain development. So you have to impose a philosophical point of view of a long life.

I think that's good advice.
Yeah. It is. Now be sure to give Mike a Hi.